Curse

Amy Awien · Feb 09, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

... a waste of time in PvE. ...

You don't switch primaries, and you don't switch RPG characters as easily as PvP chars. And, this is the R/x forum. Thus ends your argument.

Yasmine · Feb 09, 2010, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I hate to rain on this parade, but scythe rangers are a waste of time in PvE.

1. Because they have no SY! they are vastly inferior to D/W ZV builds and W/D WE builds. The only things this build has to offer against those builds, with their SY! and superior damage output, are WS and the pet. Sorry, but that doesn't come anywhere close to an even tradeoff. You just can't run a phys build, especially a melee build, without SY! and not end up with something that's just plain worse than something similar with SY!.

2. Even among crappy no-SY! scythe builds, this is strictly inferior to a scythe sin, which can run a pretty much identical bar, except with a better IAS and better damage from CritStrikes.

3. Scythe builds in general suffer from the huge problem that is AoHM. It's very nearly the only way to get your solo damage output up to a reasonable level (and the only way most people know about), but you must NOT use it, because it converts your damage type and completely removes you from intrateam synergies that rely on physical damage.

Uhm, sorry, but what should I do on my ranger? Dance?
Ofc, one could go a R/W with SY! but, in my experience the output dmg in those builds is ignorable (pray correct me if I'm wrong, i would be glad to see a decent dps+sy! ranger build) and almost never you require such a stong defense.

Voodoo Rage · Feb 10, 2010, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Just to clarify, are you guys saying that we should drop all beast mastery points still bringing the pet along or dropping it all together?

Amy Awien · Feb 10, 2010, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Just to clarify, are you guys saying that we should drop all beast mastery points still bringing the pet along or dropping it all together?

I think there are a few lines of thinking:

1. Pets have good defense and deal good damage, it's usefull to bring one and spec well into beastmastery (along with SoH & GDW).
2. Pets give you the use of Never Rampage Alone, a maintanable, perma-IAS. No need to spec into BM
3. Pets give NRA and do some damage, but in Hard Mode armor ignoring damage is king and when you bring stuff like Strength of Honor and Great Dwarf Weapon you don't really need the pet to do damage.

Bobby2 · Feb 10, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

FGJ!
Lightning Reflexes
100 Blades
Savage Slash
Whirlwind Attack
S&M Slash
SY!
Air of Superiority

So why run Scythe?

Yasmine · Feb 10, 2010, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

FGJ!
Lightning Reflexes
100 Blades
Savage Slash
Whirlwind Attack
S&M Slash
SY!
Air of Superiority

So why run Scythe?

Does air of superiority recharge skills often enough? Would be nice to be able to mantain HB and LR, but I suppose that would be too good to be true. The dps seems to be lower then the scythe version though it would vary depending on the situation.

Tenebrae · Feb 10, 2010, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

Does air of superiority recharge skills often enough? Would be nice to be able to mantain HB and LR, but I suppose that would be too good to be true. The dps seems to be lower then the scythe version though it would vary depending on the situation.

Cant trust that recharge and even with DwStab LR is a non perma IAS. For the Scythe matter , i find R/Ds with pet < W/D and A/D . Some pet hits are funny with GDW on but psef.

Bobby2 · Feb 10, 2010, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

Does air of superiority recharge skills often enough?

If a group is big enough for it to matter, the recharge will very likely trigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

Would be nice to be able to mantain HB and LR, but I suppose that would be too good to be true.

Don't forget FGJ! I can only suggest you'd try it yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

The dps seems to be lower then the scythe version though it would vary depending on the situation.

The implied question is already answered, in a way, by Chthon:

Quote:

3. Scythe builds in general suffer from the huge problem that is AoHM. It's very nearly the only way to get your solo damage output up to a reasonable level (and the only way most people know about), but you must NOT use it, because it converts your damage type and completely removes you from intrateam synergies that rely on physical damage.

Bolded the part that matters most. And anyone who says 100B + WWA (+ MoP, + SoH, + EBSoH, + wtfOrders) isn't completely NUTS needs to gtfo.

Yasmine · Feb 11, 2010, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

If a group is big enough for it to matter, the recharge will very likely trigger.

Don't forget FGJ! I can only suggest you'd try it yourself.

The implied question is already answered, in a way, by Chthon:

Bolded the part that matters most. And anyone who says 100B + WWA (+ MoP, + SoH, + EBSoH, + wtfOrders) isn't completely NUTS needs to gtfo.

I have used air of superiority on a lot of cof runs on my 600 and it's sadly very unreliable. I confess I didn't knew AoHM changed your dmg type (I ran a scythe ranger only once, in H&H, didn't have MoP and I don't usually run orders), shame. 100b+Mop+soh+whirlwind+etc can be very cool but, considering that the range is only adjacent, mop has 20 sec recharge (until you have a human necro with AP or are willing to micro a lot), EBSoH doesn't have a place on your bar until you drop SY!, I would say "completely NUTS" all the time is quite exagerated... (and I won't gtfo, tyvm for the suggestion though).

Bobby2 · Feb 11, 2010, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

I have used air of superiority on a lot of cof runs on my 600 and it's sadly very unreliable. I confess I didn't knew AoHM changed your dmg type (I ran a scythe ranger only once, in H&H, didn't have MoP and I don't usually run orders), shame. 100b+Mop+soh+whirlwind+etc can be very cool but, considering that the range is only adjacent, mop has 20 sec recharge (until you have a human necro with AP or are willing to micro a lot), EBSoH doesn't have a place on your bar until you drop SY!, I would say "completely NUTS" all the time is quite exagerated... (and I won't gtfo, tyvm for the suggestion though).

Well, I guess neither of us can help me being a luckier guy than you. But 100B + WWA + MoP = mob death. If this doesn't do it for you, I can't imagine what will

Yasmine · Feb 11, 2010, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Well, I guess neither of us can help me being a luckier guy than you. But 100B + WWA + MoP = mob death. If this doesn't do it for you, I can't imagine what will

Perhaphs we are simply playing in different areas usually. My mobs are good at dieing as well, just most of them seem to prefer not to ball around me, tend to stay a bit away from each over and refuse any idea of mass suicide... should learn from h&h, imo - those are walking hand in hand the whole time.

AndroBubbles · Feb 23, 2010, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

You just can't run a phys build, especially a melee build, without SY! and not end up with something that's just plain worse than something similar with SY!.

I use a Ranger/Assassin for the vast majority of my PvE needs, unless there is a build that strictly requires otherwise. Death Blossom+Splinter Weapon spam makes shit explode before you'd even need an armor boost. Specifically, I run a dagger/beast mastery build with Never Rampage Alone+Enraged Lunge. I apply deep wound to any target I choose, then kill it with mass amounts of armor ignoring damage due to Sabway heroes. The immense amount of defense offered by Sabway makes SY almost redundant if you play correctly.